NL: Help Me If You Can!

Here's a place where you can talk about No Limits, ask for help as well as post your creations so everyone can take them for a ride.

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NL_IS_AWESOME
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NL: Help Me If You Can!

Post by NL_IS_AWESOME » Mon Mar 26, 2007 9:59 pm

I have no idea how to handle the bezier as I want to make angled track on the editor, and do I need to use any other math formulas? I know the way to sort the values of 'sin' and 'cos' though. :D

1 - sin ( track length ) = sin * radius
2 - cos ( track height ) = cos * radius = x
x - radius = track height
3 - tan ( bezier length ) = ? :cry:

Hope NL experts could sort this thing out.

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ahoffman50
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Post by ahoffman50 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 8:37 am

I do not use math when I create my coasters. I just try to make them flow. I have said it before, and I will say it again. When I start using math and all that, it starts to be less of a hobby and more like work. So I just do not do it.
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NL_IS_AWESOME
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Post by NL_IS_AWESOME » Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:00 am

Sorry I made you feel down a bit about this question. Looks like I don't need to think about the formulas too much as I'm going to build the coasters. 8)

Thanks a lot.

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ahoffman50
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Post by ahoffman50 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:20 pm

It is just that I believe if you start worrying about the math behind it too much, you begin to lose sight of the fun in it and will get burned out. It happened to me on other projects. It may seem like it will make it less complicated to work out all the math, but to me it is not. However, with all that I have said before. It is your game, do with it as you please. If math tickles your fancy, go for it!
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Matt26250
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Post by Matt26250 » Tue Mar 27, 2007 1:59 pm

As I've said before, I don't use mathematical formulas for my tracks.

Possibly try the forum on http://www.coastersims.com

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Paul Drabek
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Post by Paul Drabek » Tue Mar 27, 2007 5:07 pm

Just make it where it looks right and when you test it look out for the red spots. When you see them (red spot meaning a spike in forces that go into the unsafe zone) make a note of those areas and go back and tweak them until you get it to work.

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Spatch
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Post by Spatch » Wed Mar 28, 2007 10:33 am

ahoffman50 wrote:It is just that I believe if you start worrying about the math behind it too much, you begin to lose sight of the fun in it and will get burned out.
I'm with you on this one. When I design coasters, I do my best to not worry about math and exact calculations of where the control points on a curve should go in the X-Y grid or anything. I make the curves and slopes look as well as I think they should look, then take a ride in the backseat to see any noticable shuffle, and then go back and fix things accordingly.

I also only build wooden coasters. They're the ones that fascinate me the most. And my philosophy on wooden coasters is that you know, not all wooden coasters are perfect (a certain Holiday World behemoth notwithstanding, apparently! ;) )

Wooden coasters are organic. They're handmade structures which can bend and warp over time. We all know it, we all know certain spots on our favorite wooden coasters which may be a bit rough, and sometimes they're smoothed out with maintenance and sometimes they're not. That said, I feel no need to build a perfectly smooth, center-line straight wooden coaster that would satisfy the perfectionists and the G-Force watchers at CoasterSims. I like rides that feel like they're jolting you around a bit.

Sure, I get rid of all the red spikes, that's way too extreme, but if a curve is slightly un-banked enough for a jolt into the yellow when you sit in the back, that's quite all right by me. I know many rides that, if recreated PERFECTLY in NoLimits, would exceed lateral Gs in spots and in seats. I keep the vertical Gs to a minimum as that much is realistic. You'd never pull -2Gs on a woodie, that's patently unsafe.

I can also "feel" the coaster when I ride it (a 22" widescreen monitor at 1680x1050 helps a bit too ;) ) and I often just use rider's intuition. I turn the G-meter off and I "use the Force, Luke." If a hill seems too choppy or a curve seems too shuffly, I fix it. But I never want a perfectly-aligned ride along the centerline. The ones I've ridden from Coastersims that do that bore me. Often times it feels as if the creator has taken so much time into smoothing everything out perfectly, they've lost all sense of pacing.

I guess what I'm trying to say is there's a fine line between building a 'realistic' coaster and a 'perfect' coaster, but in the end, if you're building them, you really only have one person to please, and that's yourself, so have fun. :)
"Work hard, rock hard, eat hard, sleep hard, grow big, wear glasses if you need 'em" - The Webb Wilder Credo

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Post by ahoffman50 » Wed Mar 28, 2007 6:26 pm

Spatch, you said exactly what I mean. By the way, your "perfect" coaster is not the same my "perfect" coaster, it all depends on what you want in a coaster. "Perfection" in this case is absolutely opinion based. Therefore, no matter how "perfect" you think you have it, someone is bound to criticize your work. Which is why you will drive yourself batty trying to make a "perfect" coaster.
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JacksonKI
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Re: NL: Help Me If You Can!

Post by JacksonKI » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:00 pm

Math? Phoey! Just go with the flow. Do what you think will be smooth and check as you go along.
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EagleMan76
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Re: NL: Help Me If You Can!

Post by EagleMan76 » Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:36 pm

Elementary is a nice little tool if you want a store-bought element, however, I like hand-building with the 3D editor best- for one, you have full control over the individual vertices. As others have said, you can make it flow however you want. As for the banking, double click on the points. Use 'continuous roll' for smoother baking and inversions, 'relative roll' is nice for vertical track. This is how I built my Heavens Flight- design, test, refine, test, refine some more, and so on. In the end the hand-building technique gives great satisfaction.
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NL_IS_AWESOME
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Re: NL: Help Me If You Can!

Post by NL_IS_AWESOME » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:54 am

It looks like I sort of have to get the hang of using a hand building so I can make a plenty of neat shaped elements won't give the riders any sort of bumpy feeling: considered as jerk too.

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Re: NL: Help Me If You Can!

Post by Trackwalker » Mon May 09, 2011 4:38 am

If you keep the radius on your turns as short as possible, it will make the train feel like it's going faster than it really is. And, of course, the G forces will increase, so be careful not to exceed the maximums.

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