The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

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Vonni
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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Vonni » Thu Oct 10, 2013 10:12 pm

TC10K wrote:Let's see... build a Flying Turns, have years of headaches, three different train designs, finally opens near the end of the season pretty much after folks were giving up on it.....


...or build a Mack bobsled, a proven design, gets done on time and on budget, and 99% of the general public can't tell the difference.


I'm guessing this is the last Flying Turns of our lifetimes.

Bless them for putting out all that energy and determination though!

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Sora » Fri Oct 11, 2013 4:56 am

Yeah, and it kinda sucks because I know they wanted to build the Euclid Turns - one of coasterdom's lost legends. Maybe they will one day, once they've worked out all the kinks on this one.

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Paul Drabek » Fri Oct 11, 2013 8:11 am

Woodpecker wrote:Yeah, and it kinda sucks because I know they wanted to build the Euclid Turns - one of coasterdom's lost legends. Maybe they will one day, once they've worked out all the kinks on this one.
Forget that...if they are going to build any other coaster lost legend I'd have to vote for the Riverview Bobs.
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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by CoasterDemon » Fri Nov 15, 2013 4:04 pm

^Only if it can be done with "circles and lines" like the original ;) And no seat dividers.

Funny, last night I was at the Jewel in the "mini mall/police station/courthouse/tech college" plot where Riverview used to sit. Kinda weird... late at night, thinking "the midway was right here!"

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Sora » Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:51 pm

Paul Drabek wrote:
Woodpecker wrote:Yeah, and it kinda sucks because I know they wanted to build the Euclid Turns - one of coasterdom's lost legends. Maybe they will one day, once they've worked out all the kinks on this one.
Forget that...if they are going to build any other coaster lost legend I'd have to vote for the Riverview Bobs.
Oh, absolutely. I've been hoping for some time that it will be their next coaster installation.

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Paul Drabek » Sat Nov 16, 2013 1:23 am

Woodpecker wrote:
Paul Drabek wrote:
Woodpecker wrote:Yeah, and it kinda sucks because I know they wanted to build the Euclid Turns - one of coasterdom's lost legends. Maybe they will one day, once they've worked out all the kinks on this one.
Forget that...if they are going to build any other coaster lost legend I'd have to vote for the Riverview Bobs.
Oh, absolutely. I've been hoping for some time that it will be their next coaster installation.
The hard part for building that one would be the space. The only place I could see that being added would maybe over by the parking lot/craft show area as it is kind of sprawling.
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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Sora » Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:48 pm

Paul Drabek wrote:The hard part for building that one would be the space. The only place I could see that being added would maybe over by the parking lot/craft show area as it is kind of sprawling.
What about one of Church's more compact designs like the Coney Island Tornado? Also from Google Maps it looks like either of them could be placed behind Twister, unless the land drops steeply to the campground or something.

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Paul Drabek » Sat Nov 16, 2013 11:01 pm

The campground slopes up from Twister.
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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Sora » Fri Nov 22, 2013 4:04 am

CoasterDemon wrote:^Only if it can be done with "circles and lines" like the original ;)
Since I haven't ridden a classic coaster designed like this, how does going over a circular hill differ from going over a parabola? I thought parabolas were supposed to be better or give more airtime or something, though I agree the Bobs should be built to the original specs.

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by CptBeeble » Sat Nov 23, 2013 7:41 am

If you've been on SFMM's Revolution, you can see the difference right there in one ride.
The second hill is a parabola and the drop leading into the loop is a circle-and-line (on the "down" side, anyway)

Parabolic hills have continually changing curve radii (like a clothoid loop does) while C&L hills have a curve, straight line, curve, straight line (like a flat track leading to a circular loop).

Let's look at it in No Limits:
Screen Shot 2013-11-23 at 7.22.18 AM.jpg
Screen Shot 2013-11-23 at 7.22.18 AM.jpg (162.06 KiB) Viewed 4340 times
A parabolic hill (and we're starting on the ground here, approaching the hill) has a continuous curving action up to a point somewhere on the rise of the hill. At this point, the upward curve reverses into the curve that turns into the top of the hill and there is a continuous curve over the top to a point on the down side of the hill. At that point, the curve reverses again into the pull-out of the hill.
The main thing is that the track is continually in a state of curve, either curving into the hill or out of it.

The C&L hill curves into a point fairly low on the up side of the hill, then there is a section of straight track at a constant angle leading to the top of the hill. There, it begins another curving section to get over the top. It's important to note that this curved section is a part of a circle rather than an arc with a continually changing radius. Once over the top, there's another piece of flat track at a constant angle of descent that leads to a piece of a circle to exit the drop.

The difference in the ride is dramatic. Parabolic rides are generally more comfortable and can offer a wide variety of kinds of airtime. They can be engineered for floats, ejector, or combinations of those. In that first hill, you'd experience some positive Gs leading to the midpoint of the upside, then you'd gradually begin to feel fewer and fewer Gs until the crest of the hill, where you'd float over the top and halfway down the other side until the curve reversed, then you'd come back down and the Gs would gradually increase as you approached the bottom. Most (if not all) modern coasters are built this way.
On the second hill, you'd have strong Gs at the base of the hill, then would go back to around 1G on the flat track heading up. When the flat track meets the circle, you'd get a strong spike of negative G and would have ejector air. IF the train is going fast enough, you'd remain out of your seat all the way over the top and would get slammed back down pretty strongly on the flat track going down. If the train isn't moving that quickly, you'd get the ejector spike, then ride over the top, then get another ejector spike when the curve met the straight track again (at least in the back car).

In my experience, I like both kinds, but the ability to enjoy a C&L design has a LOT to do with the comfort of the trains. You need lots of padding and a lap bar system that won't kill your thighs when you get ejector pops.

The original version of Mexico's La Montaña Rusa is perhaps the biggest and most extreme C&L design I can think of that I've been on. It was terrifying and brutal. It also had wonderful NAD trains with buzz bars, which was the only thing that kept you from leaving the exit platform with a broken spine and cracked femurs.

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by dare-to-fly » Thu Dec 05, 2013 7:55 am

Count on Knoebels for preservation! :)

I have to add a story. Probably many of you remember Tanya Regan. She told us a story once when we were eating with her at (I think) Cracker Barrel. She told us she was going to make a T-shirt when Flying Turns opened that said "Flying Turns, Opening in..." and then underneath have each year it was supposed to open and finally at the bottom in big letters write "IT'S OPEN!"

When Kat and I finally get to Knoebels to ride it, I want us to be wearing a T-shirt like that. It can have on the back, "Shirt concept in memory of Tanya Regan."

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Paul Drabek » Thu Dec 05, 2013 8:11 am

Tanya was an awesome lady. I had a blast spending a day with her at WOF and taking her into Kansas For a Kiddie coaster credit. Bond and I were on our way back there when we found out about her passing. It was like a kick to the chest.
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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Sora » Thu Dec 12, 2013 5:29 am

TC10K wrote:The difference in the ride is dramatic. Parabolic rides are generally more comfortable and can offer a wide variety of kinds of airtime. They can be engineered for floats, ejector, or combinations of those. In that first hill, you'd experience some positive Gs leading to the midpoint of the upside, then you'd gradually begin to feel fewer and fewer Gs until the crest of the hill, where you'd float over the top and halfway down the other side until the curve reversed, then you'd come back down and the Gs would gradually increase as you approached the bottom. Most (if not all) modern coasters are built this way.
On the second hill, you'd have strong Gs at the base of the hill, then would go back to around 1G on the flat track heading up. When the flat track meets the circle, you'd get a strong spike of negative G and would have ejector air. IF the train is going fast enough, you'd remain out of your seat all the way over the top and would get slammed back down pretty strongly on the flat track going down. If the train isn't moving that quickly, you'd get the ejector spike, then ride over the top, then get another ejector spike when the curve met the straight track again (at least in the back car).
Thanks, that's a really helpful and detailed explanation! :mrgreen: Just one question, though: what happens if you have a series of hills which are all circle and no line? So instead of getting part of a circle, then a line, then a circle for the crest, then a line, then a semi circle to exit the hill, you get semicircle/semicircle/semicircle, alternating hills and dips with equal radii lengths to form something akin to a sine wave? Do you still get ejector pops on both sides of the hill?

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by CptBeeble » Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:26 am

It would act the same way as a circle/line/circle, just with zero time in between the actions of the two circles.

It's not the section of non-curved track between the circles that creates the airtime action, its the circles themselves. You'd get the same results whether the flat track between the circles was 100 feet long or zero feet long.

It's the constant radius of the arc that makes the difference, vs the constantly-changing radius of a parabolic curve.

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Re: The Flying Turns is open!!!!!!!!

Post by Sora » Mon Dec 16, 2013 2:13 am

TC10K wrote:It would act the same way as a circle/line/circle, just with zero time in between the actions of the two circles.

It's not the section of non-curved track between the circles that creates the airtime action, its the circles themselves. You'd get the same results whether the flat track between the circles was 100 feet long or zero feet long.

It's the constant radius of the arc that makes the difference, vs the constantly-changing radius of a parabolic curve.
Thanks! :D

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