What's the real reason?

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Sora
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What's the real reason?

Post by Sora » Thu Oct 18, 2012 2:58 am

I was just thinking about how the Voyage is currently one of the most intense coasters on the planet, and proves that an ultra-intense design can be both safe and popular. Then there's Phoenix and Zippin' Pippin proving that classic designs can be just as good today as they were then, and the two remaining adult coasters by Church are popular, too. Why is nobody rebuilding the intense, old-school, 1920s classic thrillers? I just don't buy the "But they were too intense" argument. There's enough evidence to disprove that one, unless you're talking about something like the Crystal Beach Cyclone which actually injured its riders. Why are so few parks willing to take the risk? It seems like a huge missed opportunity to me.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Paul Drabek » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:32 am

I'm not sure on this one as there'd be great marketing opportunities for a beloved classic coaster. For instance if Six Flags Great America hired GCI to recreate the Riverview Bobs people in Chicago would go nuts to be able to ride a recreation of that beloved coaster. One thing though is that most parks/chains rarely look to the past as they're always looking forward for the next big thing in the whole coaster arms race.

Still at least they're talking of rebuilding the Cyclone Racer in Long Beach, CA. Maybe that'll kick start a classic coaster renaissance?

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Paul Drabek » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:42 am

Here's a POV of The Bobs:



And a cool postcard of the Bob's legendary "horse shoe" series of turnarounds. This is the part that the Raging Wolf Bobs got wrong by widening and flattening it out.
bobs.jpg
bobs.jpg (66.05 KiB) Viewed 4450 times
Here's the Raging Wolf Bobs for comparison.

Image

What other classics would you like to see brought back from the ashes of time? Post pics and video too.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by beast7369 » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:58 am

I have to wonder where in the heck Six Flags Great America would fit a clone of Riverview's Bobs. I am sure if they really wanted to do it they could. Also pretty sure that GCI or even TGG could pull this off successfully and safely. I would even venture to guess that they could easily recreate the Rye Airplane or even rethink the Crystal Beach Cyclone in such a way that it would not injure riders. Essentially it will be all about what the parks want in a ride.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by CoasterDemon » Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:04 am

Paul Drabek wrote:For instance if Six Flags Great America hired GCI to recreate the Riverview Bobs people in Chicago would go nuts to be able to ride a recreation of that beloved coaster.
I used to think the same thing, Paul. But the opportunity for that is less and less; before Southwest Territory - they did consider a "Riverview" area back there. The legend of Riverview and the Bobs is less and less as the years go on; the people that remember it like when we were kids are mostly gone now. I don't like it - just seems like a fact. Furthermore - the clientele at SFGAm (and seemingly most Six Flags parks) are so ... what's the word - oblivious? Unaffected? Possessed by un-coolness? I dunno... I just think something like the Bobs (as a retro-cool thing) would be lost on them. The Bobs - as a new coaster - would be great. But with GCI ultra "safe" (I'm using that word sarcastically) designs, the Bobs wouldn't be the Bobs.

We have Viper (with it's super annoying 1/3-mile long entrance queue AND exit queue) with it's splendid air time and curves... and I feel kinda "lucky" for that. Eagle is a top 10 ride waiting to come back - if they would do a little nip/tuck, add some topper track, turn down brakes, and a few other things... oh yeah, and make a pathway to the ride so it, too, doesn't have a 1/3 mile walk to get to it AND to get to the rest of the park after you ride it. It's so freaking stupid and rude that Six Flags does that....

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Paul Drabek » Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:22 pm

With the removal of the Demon and maybe that un-used theater in Southwest Territory the Bobs could easily fit in there or remove the go-karts and pop it in there right across from the Kiddieland Little Dipper which would make a nice retro area.

Remember there's always room...just look at Indiana Beach.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by CoasterDemon » Thu Oct 18, 2012 3:11 pm

Demon ain't goin anywhere :evil:

Yes it's rough. Just in the last 2 weeks, shocks were replaced in most of the seats and it's markedly smoother than it was earlier in the summer. Same thing 3 years ago; yellow had new everything, but deteriorated over a year or so.

There are going to be newer (most likely lap bar) trains available for old Arrow coasters slowly coming out. No, the lemon chill guy didn't tell me that :mrgreen:

Demon - despite rough rides 50% of the time - is still one of the most exciting Arrow coasters ever built. Just my 2cents though :)

You're a well-versed coaster geek, I'm surprised you haven't learned to ride this ride. Don't sit on a wheel; either very front or back 2 seats. We are both over 6' tall; it's easy to hold on to the fiberglass car frame - it's basically a handle. Lean forward* - sit away from the back of the seat. Going into the cork, wrap your right arm around the harness and presto.

Sure, I don't like to "learn how to ride" a coaster, but Demon is helluva lot more fun and entertaining than most B&M and Intamin stuff I ride, so I like it :)

Plus, I know changes are on the horizon.

*I showed Gump how to do this on Ninja - and it makes the ride so much better.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Spencerman » Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:45 pm

I hope this works on the Dragon aat Adventureland! :)

I wouldn't mind a recreation of the Roller Coaster at Riverview Park. It's a John Miller ride!

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Paul Drabek » Thu Oct 18, 2012 5:50 pm

CoasterDemon wrote: You're a well-versed coaster geek, I'm surprised you haven't learned to ride this ride. Don't sit on a wheel; either very front or back 2 seats. We are both over 6' tall; it's easy to hold on to the fiberglass car frame - it's basically a handle. Lean forward* - sit away from the back of the seat. Going into the cork, wrap your right arm around the harness and presto.
Billy we were in the front seat for our final ride (we'll ride again with lap bars) and yes both of us know how to ride and it still beat the crap out of us so much we have no desire to repeat the ride. We'll just go hop on Bill, Viper, Whizzer (older than the Demon and NEVER rough because Anton knew how to build them) or X-Flight instead.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by CoasterDemon » Thu Oct 18, 2012 10:29 pm

^Yes, true. Anton was the premium steel coaster builder - hence why we have so few of his rides. All his coasters are full of hinges/joints and the whole system flexes; whereas an Arrow is completely welded together - so WE absorb all the vibration and shock. Not to mention the hollow fiberglass cars that carry all that and amplify it on horrible transitions. THEN add shoulder bars and that's what we get. Uck!

Sorry your Demon ride was so bad... I've had some pretty bad rides on it myself. But nowhere near as bad as others - including Vortex at Kings Island and even Orient Express after the 2nd loop was full of unnecessary roughness.
Paul Drabek wrote:or X-Flight instead.
Ugh. Would be *great* with out those stupid redundant vests. Hate em; I don't like to be in-bondaged on a coaster! Those vests are so tight by the end of the ride. I have a funny feeling we've had this discussion before :)

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Sora » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:46 am

CoasterDemon wrote:
Paul Drabek wrote:For instance if Six Flags Great America hired GCI to recreate the Riverview Bobs people in Chicago would go nuts to be able to ride a recreation of that beloved coaster.
I used to think the same thing, Paul. But the opportunity for that is less and less; before Southwest Territory - they did consider a "Riverview" area back there. The legend of Riverview and the Bobs is less and less as the years go on; the people that remember it like when we were kids are mostly gone now. I don't like it - just seems like a fact. Furthermore - the clientele at SFGAm (and seemingly most Six Flags parks) are so ... what's the word - oblivious? Unaffected? Possessed by un-coolness? I dunno... I just think something like the Bobs (as a retro-cool thing) would be lost on them. The Bobs - as a new coaster - would be great. But with GCI ultra "safe" (I'm using that word sarcastically) designs, the Bobs wouldn't be the Bobs.
GCI rebuild the Bobs or Airplane? *shudder* No thanks, unless there's some way to stop them mangling and neutering the design. In reading, the Bobs wasn't popular because it was at Riverview, or for any nostalgic reason, it was popular because it was a great ride in its own right. It out-grosssed seven other coasters by three to one, for 43 years straight. Paul, is it possible the modern parks are afraid of anticippointment, with all the other great woodies dotted around the country?

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by violakat03 » Sat Oct 20, 2012 2:08 am

I think the real problem is that the general public isn't interested in historical rides. It takes just the right park and just the right atmosphere to make a recreation a success. With Bay Beach being a fairly isolated park and Zippin Pippin being it's only coaster, it was the right atmosphere for a recreation. If you were to put ZP in a Six Flags park, it would just fade into the background. A recreation of a classic woodie would have to be the centerpiece of whichever park it's being placed in, and there aren't many parks with the capital needed to invest in a new coaster that fit into this description.

A good example of this would be Viper at SFGAm - it's a recreation of a classic woodie (Cyclone) placed into a megapark where it is not the centerpiece. It fades into the background and most of the general public walks right past it over to Raging Bull. Only the enthusiasts really appreciate Viper for being an outstanding woodie, and therefore it usually has one of the shortest lines in the park. Blue Streak at Cedar Point is another example of a fantastic classic woodie with amazing air time that is completely ignored by everyone but enthusiasts. It's always a walk-on and most of the general public consider it boring. Can you imagine Zippin Pippin at Cedar Point? The reaction would be "well, that's boring. Let's go to Dragster." instead of the fantastic response it's gotten at Bay Beach. I could name a ton of fantastic classic coasters in megaparks that are pretty much ignored ... Screamin' Eagle at SFStL, Rebel Yell at Kings Dominion, Wild One at SFA ... the list goes on.

However, put a classic (or recreation classic) into a small park with nothing else around it to really compete and it suddenly has the ability to be a star: Phoenix at Knoebels, Leap the Dips at Lakemont, Blue Streak at Conneaut Lake, etc.

The sad fact is, it's big steel coasters that draw crowds. Recreation classics won't draw in crowds at most parks. Heck, even modern woodies can't usually compete with mediocre steel coasters. At Dollywood, Wild Eagle will be running an hour wait while Thunderhead, the far superior ride of the two, will be a walk-on. That's one reason I don't want to see a major steel coaster at Holiday World - suddenly, the fantastic wooden coasters will fade into the background. I think Voyage will be able to hold it's own, but it's one of few wooden coasters that can - the Beast is another. Beast will usually have the same length line as Diamondback, but that's very very unusual for a wooden coaster.
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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Spencerman » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:54 am

I think it would be perfect for Adventureland to put a recreation of a classic. The only steel coaster is the Dragon, so, yeah. A new classic remake would be perfect! There is plenty of space if you look on Google Earth.

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Re: What's the real reason?

Post by Gump » Wed Oct 24, 2012 4:21 am

I showed Gump how to do this on Ninja - and it makes the ride so much better.
:lol:
I agree with learning how to ride a coaster. I didn't think it was possible to enjoy an Arrow again, but Demon you may be on to something. You should do a coaster vid for the general public, or travel channel, How To Ride Arrow Coasters- An enthusiast guide. :lol: :beer:

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